HTML 5 Thoughts

Just some thoughts, and perhaps some ranting around the HTML 5 spec...

I was reading through the HTML 5 draft (actually glancing … since it goes on and on). If you're looking for a summary, I think the HTML 5 Differences draft is more useful. As I read through the list and the TOC, I had a few different reactions.

There are definitely some bits of goodness in it, albeit a few years delayed, and those additions will realistically only become available and dependable still more years down the road. Its great to see the <input> tag finally grow up to support common semantic data types such as date, time, url, email etc. It is also good to see HTML incorporate media scenarios by adding the <video> and <audio> elements as part of the tag soup. Other useful additions that I think will go a long way are better and standard support for application scenarios such as managing navigation history, local storage, drag/drop, drawing and content editing. There is definitely lots of possibility, esp. when combined with the latest CSS capabilities.

The spec is long! And I wonder if it should even be called the HTML 5 spec. It looks like it wants to be an end-all spec for the browser platform, and even speaks to socket connections and peer-to-peer connections. However, at the same time it doesn't speak to other foundational UI and presentation features such as animation, or data-binding. Instead it adds a whole bunch of new tags like <dialog> which to me seem less critical at this point in time (I'll blog about this some more ... see here).

The spec doesn't seem speak to extensibility either. To me this is a key feature, and personally near-and-dear, having worked on the platforms side of software for so long. Back in May of '06, I listed my wish list for the browser platform... and one of the bigger items on my list was getting DOM fundamentals right. Specifically, I would have loved to see the HTML 5 spec address extensibility of the tag set and rationalize things like HTC behaviors and XBL bindings. We now have built in media tags, but what if I want a <slideshow> tag? It simply doesn't address encapsulation of behavior, composition, layout extensibility, and ability to define new object models.

Its over-encompassing nature, especially beyond HTML in a strict sense, also makes me wonder if there shouldn't be a much more trimmed down HTML 5 Core spec. I'd love to see something that has a chance of being realistically and fully implemented in the foreseeable future.

In the meantime, it looks like browser plugins such as Silverlight will continue to be an important part of the RIA platform, by bringing not only consistency in APIs and capabilities across browsers, but also by nailing some of the fundamentals.

What are your thoughts? Or your rants? :-)


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Posted on Wednesday, 1/23/2008 @ 5:53 PM


Comments

9 comments have been posted.

Mark Hildreth

Posted on 1/23/2008 @ 7:13 PM
I couldn't agree more. Extensibility will be a key feature for extensibility. Adding it would be a great first step. It would be nice to see more standardized features for the types of things people are used to in fat client UI - drag & drop, menus, treeviews - just to name a few. It takes a ridiculous about of code to achieve those things now. I'd also like to see some layout improvements. Oh, and how about a textarea maxlength property?! Lastly, I also agree that things like audio/video should be left for the Flash/Silverlight space.

Raj

Posted on 1/23/2008 @ 11:28 PM
Hi, you know that it was/is an open participation, right?

Paul

Posted on 1/24/2008 @ 12:24 AM
*** "Extensibility will be a key feature for extensibility" ***

love it. ;-)

Lorenzo

Posted on 1/24/2008 @ 12:59 AM
Extensibility is the name of the game. If the current version of browsers (say firefox 2, IE 6 and 7, for example) would support an easy way to plug in some of the HTML 5 features, designers and developers would be less frustrated when the "new exiting features" has to give way to compatibility in order to support "old browsers" (anybody?).
For example somebody developed the so called "IE7" javascript to provide IE6 with more css standard support.
Personally I like the new features on the input fields. Instead of writing tons of javascript for, say, validation, would be an good idea to have some (more or less) automated facility to load the "new extension" on the "old browsers."

trojjer

Posted on 1/24/2008 @ 6:12 AM
Will anyone pay any attention to HTML5 given the state of the XML hype in the air? I'm a floating voter myself -- I wish that XML made a bit easier by removing the necessity to have to feel stupid when typing things like disabled="disabled". Then again, I also wish that DTDs were cleaned up so that they were more humanly readable and less of an SGML mess (why can't we just type &lt;doctype "html 4.01 strict"&gt; for example?). XML Schemas like RELAX-NG seem to help, but I still wish for the days when you didn't have to copy and paste a line of bizarre, arcane syntax to every "document".

twh

Posted on 1/24/2008 @ 7:30 AM
I kind of like the new "section", "article", and "aside" tags. Should help us avoid making the document structure out of "div" tags. I've been waiting for "datalist" and other improvements they are making to the "input" tag since my very first HTML form. It will be interesting to see how things like "dialog" get rendered.

Dave Reed

Posted on 1/24/2008 @ 1:17 PM
There needs to be an API for getting the position of an arbitrary element. The API should have the ability to account for scroll offsets (optionally) all the way through to the root. Currently you have to add all the parent offsetX/Y and scroll offsets, but as we've found, its extremely buggy. Throw in relative positioning mixed with absolute positioning mixed with wierd overflow settings, etc etc... the traditional approach is usually totally wrong, in all browsers. IE has a getClientRects method which is almost correct, most of the time. We need a standard, and it needs to be nailed!

Eugenio Estrada Csaky

Posted on 1/24/2008 @ 2:28 PM
Sounds great! I thought the web core should be extensible from the core. Thus, i'll can do powerfully web applications compatible with all the browsers and plataforms. Being possible develop components without tecnologies singleplataform as ActiveX, Firefox extensions or Opera Widgets.

Best regards,

Eugenio

Nikhil Kothari

Posted on 1/26/2008 @ 4:19 PM
On the note from Raj, plus prodding from Bertrand, I went ahead and actually submitted a comment ... see here:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2008Jan/0038.html

In the hopes that this post is looked at some more, feel free to suggest additional desires you'd like to see, like Dave did with his comment about having a good API for getting at positions and sizes of DOM elements.
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